How those who clothe us clothe themselves
How those who clothe us clothe themselves
Clothing the Self Interview with Johnny Fan
Interviewed by Dr. Alexandria Vasquez and Allie Nugent
Written by Lexi Fujii and Dr. Alexandria Vasquez
Herderin is a research and design studio attempting to understand the social and emotional relationship people have to clothing; and if any, the relationship to identity that clothing facilitates and corresponds to. Through Herderin, Alexandria Vasquez, PhD, and her team is currently studying the emotional and somatic approaches to empathic clothing design. Herderin is branding this body of research: Clothing The Self. The following journal entry is from a Clothing the Self interview with Johnny Fan of National Apparel Inc.
I head south on Highway 101, passing the lush green, preserved lands that mark Marin County, driving over the Golden Gate Bridge and into the populous urban jungle that is San Francisco (SF). Somehow in less than 20 miles I am in the heart of the city, picking up Allie along the way, and turning onto the well known streets of Divisadero, Bush, Hyde and then running straight into Market Street. San Francisco has taken on many iterations over the last century and a half. At one point this city was an important hub for clothing design and manufacturing. Think: Gap, Levi’s, Esprit, who were all designing, making, and conducting overall business here at one point in time. Many internationally-known brands had found their home in San Francisco but left long ago for factories abroad and dispersed their business offices to Los Angeles and New York. The last of the SF clothing manufacturing industry rests with only a small number of studios and factories – from over 400 to now just around 40.
We find parking in an hourly lot two blocks away from our destination. This isn’t the first time I’ve been here, so I know where I’m going, but from an outsider perspective you would never know that tucked in the basement in an indistinguishable Market Street building is arguably the best sewing studio left in San Francisco. There is something omnipresent about the juxtaposition of being in the center of everything and yet invisible to the eye, below the city streets in a basement facility. It feels representative of the very juxtaposition between the hidden hands of those who make the objects we wear, value, and consume so rapidly these days.
Today we are interviewing Johnny Fan of National Apparel Inc. As expensive as real estate is in this area, Johnny surprisingly has quite a bit of square footage for his business. That disconnect between everyday material interaction and those who create it is spatially represented by Johnny’s underground sewing operation, and yet his ability to be under-the-radar is also perhaps the reason he has been one of the few to survive an industry that has almost all but left the city.
We have known about Johnny since 2022 and he’s always been a curiosity to us. Who is this man who owns the best sewing studio in the Bay Area? And how has he stayed in business for so long? “I am from Hong Kong,” Johnny later tells us. “I graduated from high school and then I worked for some companies. Many people told me it was better for me to work with someone else before starting my own sewing studio.” Johnny threw himself into the industry whole-heartedly.
As we enter the brightly lit studio space, our eyes go straight to the sewing stations and rolls of fabric and bagged orders everywhere. But very quickly we are greeted by a jovial Johnny with a subtle smile spreading across his lips. He stands at about 5’10”, wearing a button up denim shirt over a green-grey polo. His glasses are rimless and his hair is a soft white. Although the space is clearly utilized to its full potential, you can tell that Johnny has everything in the place it needs to be. It may not look organized, but it is definitely not disorganized nor dusty, in fact at one point Johnny stands on a chair, swipes a finger over the overhead light of the sewing operation – spotless. There is no dust on the lights nor the bolts of fabric or JUKI machines, everything is thoroughly cleaned. This appears to be a great source of pride for Johnny.
We officially begin the interview trying to understand the basis of this entire research project: What draws someone to wear what they do? What underlying factors are embedded in these decisions?
“I like to dress casually. I want people to know my lifestyle,” Johnny tells us. He has many items of clothing in his own wardrobe that he says he likes to keep “neat”, and owns a diverse array of clothing, too. Though he can make his own clothing, his appreciation for craftsmanship inspires him to purchase noticeably wellmade garments. His appreciation is not with aesthetics as much as it is with quality. Johnny is not really into fashion nor style. “I have no need to look in the mirror in the morning,” Johnny says, “I don’t need one to get dressed.”
When asked what his favorite garment is, he responds that they are pieces from long ago when he helped brands get their start. His sentimental attachment to the clothing he owns reflects his pride for his craft: to make clothing that is made well, despite the cost it may incur on his business. Quality always comes first. A value clearly worn on his still-intact, decades-old garments.
“I don’t like expensive labels. I care about the quality. Not just of the sewing, but the fabric as well.” He goes on to tell us about how he had been part of Aeropostale’s first sample production, and how he held onto a sample for 10 years before gifting it to a friend. With a smile, he reminisces about how happy this made his friend. Perhaps, this is how he feels every time he finishes an order and sends it out to his clients?
Johnny is the first in our research pilot study willing to consider trading wardrobes with another person he may not know. “I like to learn. I am always learning. Even at my age,” he tells us brightly. Johnny’s laughter, though subtle and understated, and his explicit curiosity are quite moving to us.
There seems to be a throughline between our other interviewee, Rebecca Burgess, and Johnny Fan — when they have a relationship with the process and maker, they value it more and thus hold onto a garment for a longer time. It is sentimental, yes, but also there is a sense of pride and understanding for the many people it takes to create their clothing. We wonder, what would it look like if people saw their clothing as a story? And maybe this is what the current fast fashion industry has wrong. Production is veiled in mystery, opaque operations and supply chains, unseen labor and environmental impacts. No one can begin to understand how their $5 flimsy shirt got to their mailbox. And it is not in human’s innate nature to care about things we do not see. So how do we change this? How does the opaque become transparent, the intentionally obscured truths become known public information? Maybe it begins with people like Johnny, and carrying his curiosity and honesty into our own personal and professional lives.
Throughout our interview, we slowly connect the pieces to one of our original questions earlier in the day – how Johnny and his business has survived this industry despite many relocating or shutting down. So much of it comes down to the man himself, his values and how he treats people.
Survival is often an element of people’s economic experiences; how do we survive, persevere despite all odds being against us? We look around the studio and there are signs of life — oranges in bowls, a shrine with offerings for good fortunes, a ping pong table, CDs and vinyls lining the shelves. There are signs of a family bond that keeps the survival going. “We work like a family here,” Johnny proclaims, “It’s the only way.” He hires solely based on referrals and word of mouth. An almost antiquated practice of hiring these days, especially in contrast with the job market trends happening in this city and south of here in the Silicon Valley. Hundreds of layoffs in the tech industry have made national news. As educated tech workers scramble to find new employment, and as the government seeks to become “more efficient” via its own mass layoffs, we see that underneath the streets of San Francisco, workers still survive by way of family connections in the workplace.
Something we’ve always admired about Johnny is his integrity and transparency. When Herderin began looking to shift its production from a single-woman studio in San Rafael to a sustainably-scaled business, it felt intimidating and uncertain. For years we had to navigate our own sourcing and manufacturing alone, meeting with people who almost seemed desperate for money. They would want you to pay a high upfront cost without even holding a meeting first. Knowing the context of this industry, it's understandable, but also very difficult for a small business like us to scale and to know who to trust. Meeting Johnny was different. Even though he also has a business to run in this difficult and competitive industry, he always puts himself in the shoes of the entrepreneurs who come to him, being transparent and honest with everyone. “I always give my opinion. Not many people do that.”
He continues later, “When you give a price, you have to stick to it, even when it costs more to produce it.” Johnny tells us how he has to often roll up his sleeves and take on many roles in the studio. “I do much in the office, but I am also in the studio working. I am always trying to figure it out. There is always something new to learn.” It’s refreshing to meet someone like Johnny — of strong integrity, curiosity, and understanding. Johnny Fan is considered one of the best to work with in San Francisco, but he comes with no pretension.
As we near the end of the hour, he shows us his current projects. There is a reusable diaper project made from soft-to-the-touch, baby alpaca wool. He then turns to the table behind him and shows us an organic cotton fabric he is using to make the bags that give dignity to human bodies as they are cremated. It is easy to imagine that the people who are making such emotional and delicate products would want to entrust their work to someone as genuine and helpful as Johnny.
We wrap up the interview asking about his future. “Maybe when I retire, I will rejoin the choir.” Not only is Johnny an appreciator of craftsmanship in clothing, but he also loves music. There are piles and stacks of CDs and vinyl records abound in his office and throughout the sewing studio. “I listen to all kinds of music,” he says. And as we walk out of the basement sewing studio, waving goodbye to Johnny, we smile at the thought of him leaving this industry after decades of grit and grind, and just creating music for the sake of enjoyment.
Above ground the hustle and bustle of the city keeps churning. We hear distant sirens and honking horns, feel the moist air of the infamous fog settling in around us. In just an hour, Johnny has reminded us of the simple values to drive for in life: honesty, integrity, and care. It’s in his wardrobe, his business practices, his relationships. As we turn to head back to our car, we photograph the alley that conceals Johnny’s workspace. We snap a second photo and just then Johnny opens the door at the perfect time and sees us, waving goodbye and the moment is captured.
